Your thoughts

[Goza]

Taken from Jospeh Görbels book on propaganda

That would be "Joseph Goebbels".

Think about this people.

Don't be ignorant, be sceptic, be open minded

I can't help but your posts about this topic tend to become partially insulting. Just because people don't share your believes does not mean they are not making up their own mind on the matter, nor are they short-minded or ignorant.

Find a "red line", and make your own conclusion.

This seems to be what a lot of people did, alas, not everyone comes to the same conclusions as you do.

[legintown]

Steel melts at at aprox 1564 degrees celsius but it takes something above 600 celsius and it will lose 50% of its basic abilities, knowing that building that was hit first got at least 10 flors above the plane crater do the maths. Plane didn't have to ripoff the steel construction, just to spray the fuel on it. for example if it was hit 5 flors lower it would collaps sooner due to more weight above the melting spot.
U cannot really compare this situation to any because it is quite specific building style (not used often in Europe) and the buildings that they mentioned in such theorycrafting aren't nowhere near size, shape and materials used aswell as construction type.

The thing is that the steel had no way to reach temperatures of 600 degrees celcius. For the steel itself to reach a temperature of 600 degrees celcius, it has to be exposed of temperatures highly exeeding 600 degrees.

And Goza, this isn't about beliefs, its about science. You cant argue with the truth of science.

[Cwave]

Steel melts at at aprox 1564 degrees celsius but it takes something above 600 celsius and it will lose 50% of its basic abilities, knowing that building that was hit first got at least 10 flors above the plane crater do the maths. Plane didn't have to ripoff the steel construction, just to spray the fuel on it. for example if it was hit 5 flors lower it would collaps sooner due to more weight above the melting spot.
U cannot really compare this situation to any because it is quite specific building style (not used often in Europe) and the buildings that they mentioned in such theorycrafting aren't nowhere near size, shape and materials used aswell as construction type.

The thing is that the steel had no way to reach temperatures of 600 degrees celcius. For the steel itself to reach a temperature of 600 degrees celcius, it has to be exposed of temperatures highly exeeding 600 degrees.

And Goza, this isn't about beliefs, its about science. You cant argue with the truth of science.

You just randomly sprouted 2 things in again. If i have a heat source and i put it against an object , the temperature will near that heat source. Maybe a few degree's off but still very close. So its a mute statement to say there is a need for a higher temperature. 599 degrees then if you will
@ Girsh, the diesel was inside the building as it was what was used for heating the building.
And this is very much about beliefs since you are acting like a fanatic to whomever doesnt agree with your biased sensational proof and video's.
Saying things like WAKE UP really makes you loose the argument no matter how good your points are.

You also keep repeating that you have studied this to great extent and therefor must be right.
Thats also a false assumption.

[legintown]

You just randomly sprouted 2 things in again. If i have a heat source and i put it against an object , the temperature will near that heat source. Maybe a few degree's off but still very close. So its a mute statement to say there is a need for a higher temperature. 599 degrees then if you will

That is absolutely not true Cwave. Ask your science teacher or any1 with a scientific background. Every kind of material has its own charactaristc, and they do not all react the same to temperature. Study some more science dude.

[Cwave]

...
ok, what is there not to understand that if i take a bucket of water of 100 degrees, throw an egg in. What temp will it get?
It will near a 100 degrees...

It has nothing to do with charistics of a material what temp it can/will reach(before changing phase that is).... Charistics of material dictace if it will melt, vaporise, solidify etc. So it might effect the time it takes to reach that temp causing it to not reach that temp at all. I think 90 minutes of blazing jetlinerfuel and office materials is quite long and stated to be long enough for the steel to reach the same temp.

Like i said, maybe a few degrees off, but if you put a steel bar in a furnace of a 100 degrees, it will reach a 100 degrees....
Study more science dude.

Its a fact that steel looses about 50% of its axial strength when you heat it to 600 degrees celsius
YES??

On a funny sidenote, this is the fault of the damn hippy's and environmentalism. While the towers were under construction, the use of asbestos got banned and so from the 64th story and up, its just steal

Here clicky, its the enemy legintown
http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

Also, can you give us a reason of the goverment blowing up the towers. I would love to hear it

[Ino]

Legendary thread indeed...

As for my opinion, I saw some documentary on TV about the 'conspiracy' makers. According to that documentary most conspiracy dudes tend to look at only a few facts while not talking about some other very important facts. In the documentary they also discarded most theories that the conspiracy makers came up with...

[delling]

You cant argue with the truth of science.

Gotta pick this one out, purely because it's fun.

Science is basically the study of 'what can be observed to be true', i.e. via experiment and empirical evidence.

Problem is, our abilities to observe things changes as time goes by, mainly as our body of empirical data increases, and the tools we use to take measurements improve. I'm sure you will agree that the middle-ages idea of feeling the shape of someone's skull isn't really science? Or the ancient idea that emotions came from the heart?

Anyway, science is good, but it's by no means perfect. Don't hide behind it like a barricade!

If your scientific answers suggest one thing, and someone else's scientific answers say anything... that simply means that more research has to be done, or our method of research needs to improve. You simply can't say that your scientific answers are true, and the other scientific answers are false. As you say, science is automatically true... But only if they agree with your zealotry?

Nope... can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

So, are half the scientists in the world telling lies? There are real, credible scientists saying that the towers fell because of the planes. Are you going to discount all of their previous scientific work? Even though science is true, and you can not argue with it?

Anyway, food time!

[legintown]

Cwave, read this, and stfu plx

http://www.contegointernational.com/ASTM119UL263.pdf

Here you can clearly see the testing of the ASTM E119 steel, that the furnace temperature is always higher than the temperature of the metal.

[Cwave]

Cwave, read this, and stfu plx

http://www.contegointernational.com/ASTM119UL263.pdf

Here you can clearly see the testing of the ASTM E119 steel, that the furnace temperature is always higher than the temperature of the metal.

Stfu? Learn2debate and not tell people to shut up
That doesnt negate the fact that the steel can still reach 600 degrees and loose most of its strength?

Please also respond to delling and my other questions.
Would like to see that you can also grasp other views/opinions

[Goza]

Departing a bit from the what/how it happened, I'd like to know what Legintown thinks about who made it happen. I don't think you said that here yet (or if I missed it, please link that post).

Like, was it a plot by the government to justifying a war or their "strengthen America" campaign, or a conspiracy by an autonomous American group demonstrating their power to the president/government, or a terrorist attack that did not happen the way we've been told it has, etc...

[Gaeios(Graxlos)]

lets discuss thermodynamics.

Two materials in contact will always attempt to reach equilibrium, a common temperature.

If the jetfuel has a constant temperature of about 600degrees untill equilibrium with the steel has been reached both will have a temperature of 600degrees.
BUT. this requires them to be in contact, which means only the steel very close to the fire would achieve this and only the steel above the fire since heat moves upwards.

[Daekesh]

Did you read the disclaimer on your own 'proof', legin?

[Smorisha]

Righto, we came to the fact that steel could have reached 600 degrees but thats not so important since noone said that it had to reach that temperature. As we saw 100% melting is on roughly 1600 degrees and 50% of its atributes is lost on 600! What will happen on 400 or 300 degrees? Who can say that 30% of atributes lost isn't enough to make it collapse?
When we talk about controled demolition it would require hundreds on explosive packs all over the building on precisely calculated points, anyone who thinks its posible to do so in building that is populated 24/7 and secured with cameras, guards and detectors on every enterance it had makes me sad.
Ofc there were explosions inside the building, diesel line, various explosive things that we use every day (even deodorant kaboom can crash the window)...
And last but not less important is a reason, why would USA goverment destroy it? Why would they kill couple of thousands of their own ppl? It doesn't make sence!

[kawe]

BY FIRE BE PURGED!!!

[delling]

The post has been Ragnarosed!