So lets talk about cheese.

[Palmar]

You don't have enough units. Pay attention Palmar, you could learn something: build more units.

While that is perfectly true, the best way for me to improve at starcraft is to make more units and workers...

I still make more units than you.

[kagemoth]

U WANT TO FIGHT OR SUMTHING?? I WILL DESTROY YOU TROLL WITH USELESS TUSKS!

Does hugman even play?

[Abyiss]

yeh palmer, supply block used to be a massive issue for me last week, its still a small problem but with practise its getting better.

And yeh drones its like .. my lava !! what to spend them on units or drones :S

its all practise i guess

[Grishnag]

my lava

maybe you should get some larva instead

[Rash]

I gotta agree with kage on many points here, but you can't stop cheese, because it's just there.

I've played many games with Narw in 2v2 and a gotta agree with what the zerg player says: Everyone does it (in 2v2). Many times narw and I have scouted the cheese, and IF narw would succeed in defending it (2x10pool is usually defended, but he loses all or almost all drones), They can still win by going for me in a next push of zerglings. Sometimes I'm just a retard for keeping my depot lowered to get units into narws base asap and then forget to close when they come for me, or they just simply break down my wall because the majority of my units is at narw (if not he loses his base to 2nd wave) and I have also invested in bunkers in narws base.

This type of cheese is almost impossible to defeat, unless you have alot of "gamers sense" or some sort of scouting on exactly when they're gonna come for a second push.

Also: 10pool is not the end of the game after just T1, before both of us can get a decent force up, they will have expansions and all they need for a late game (with even a significant advantage)

[Narw]

Most of problems you described here is more about zerg being so vulnerable to early harras, they are working on it as you saw in patch notes, but they are doing it some akward way (not making zerg stronger early game, but protoss/terran weaker).

In 1v1 i just assume that at least 50% of players will try to "outplay" me in first 6-10 minutes of game and send early drone to scout (first or second drone i got, depending on map). If he dosnt go cheese i wont be so badly behind, if he goes for cheese it usually wins me match/saves a lot of nerves.

[Rash]

IdrA style, calm defence and perfect calculation on how many units you need to defend!

[Yathezai]

This game is amazing stop talking about cheese. 

[Draconis]

I can't figure it out what's wrong with cheese. I remember when I used to play scbw on bnet and there were those games asking for 10 minutes tech time and stuff like that. I mean come on, if you can not scout on a small map then you deserve to get cheesed by someone who knows the map and tactic better than you.

Cheese is out of the box most of the time, out of the regular build for 10 mins and have a huge mid fight. Not to mention that zerg aint even cheese, it relies on his t1 units most of the game. If you face a 6 pool you will probably be smart enough to attack the lings with your drones and whatever zealot/marine/lings/queen you have and he is done. All you need to do is counter 1-2 mins after and you have won the game. If he goes for an 8-pool than you should have some lings of your own or some units at least. Though an 8-pool is just constant pressure till the speed is done.

Not to mention cheese is fun and entertaining especially when it fails and you are forced to keep playing out of the box, out of the regular in order to remain in the game and maybe win. How many times any of you countered a cheese and felt great about it?

And Kage, what you miss from your point is the fact that some people might like short active games, that force you to micro and macro better and continuous.

Cheese is there in order to force someone who wants to become a better player to scout, scout early and keep on scouting the whole game. If you know how to use rally points you get your worker to scout 80% of the danger areas in a second or two.

As a last note, I find it smart and challenging to build, expand or do out of the standard strats moves in order to tip the balance of the fight in your favour, no matter what the other guy says.

Protoss proxy can be easy countered early if you see the probe - get 3-4 probes, corner it and kill it. You can't? Just the the EXACT same build as him in your base, you will end up with more units faster, you can use the probes to help your zealots. You'r a terran? throw down a bunker then swap for early mara and gg, or maybe some reapers to make the zealots sweat. Your a zerg and you couldnt notice the probe coming using your over ... then you might deserve to get owned. If you do notice though an 8 pool can take care of any proxy push and end up in a very fast victory for you.

Reaper problems, meh just get a crawler or a queen, or a fast stalker, or a mara.

I will end my post with the phrase:

SCOUT! For the love of God!   

[Narw]

I actualy even tried to reply to this, but then i realized you are trolling. Please, tell you are trolling.

[Palmar]

I don't get it, Draconis is speaking so much truth it hurts and you think he's trolling?

[Draconis]

Narw - I added you to friends in sc2  ... lets have a game and try to cheese me 

That's a no - not trolling I thought that its a good crowd to be sincere and discuss this.

Thx Palmar for the support  

[Devlin]

smileys!

[Draconis]

smileys!

Lots of them! Ill morph them into smilings then to banelings and explode em around here! 

[Narw]

Narw - I added you to friends in sc2  Cool... lets have a game and try to cheese me

Yeah, i will make a prox hatch.

I mean come on, if you can not scout on a small map then you deserve to get cheesed by someone who knows the map and tactic better than you.

So i heard  that proxy gateway is overwhelming vs zerg on the internets, ima gonna try, ima skilled. No.

Not to mention cheese is fun and entertaining especially when it fails and you are forced to keep playing out of the box, out of the regular in order to remain in the game and maybe win.

What the hell is fun and entertaining in mindvision build you assume you do before the gates open? You are aware 90% of cheesers dosnt scout you? They just assume you go for standard build?

And Kage, what you miss from your point is the fact that some people might like short active games, that force you to micro and macro better and continuous.

What?

I don't get it, Draconis is speaking so much truth it hurts and you think he's trolling?

I'm obviously blind then couse i fail to see that "so much truth". What i see is trying to justify a way of playing this game that kinda ruins the fun. Ask yourself why you barely see any kind of cheese replay's on sc2 replay sites? Maybe couse its way more interesting to actually watch a game full of micro AND macro, which usually is a 15-35 mins game and not all in 6 mins build?