Mafia II - Story of the Iron Edge - Ship Deck

[Tyler]

Sorry Kawe I will read your text wall after I have written this.

Delling: He seems to have hidden quite a few secrets and is somewhat inconsistent in the TTaM/Shiftey/Emptyy think, but he comes forward as a martyr and as nobody else have, he probably telling the truth. This could best be confirmed by Kawe after he's talked to everyone.

OK this is the line that popped into my head when I was thinking about voting for Vdti. I couldn't really believe that Delling's last, most desperate, post. The one where he was excusing himself for being a bad rebel would convince anyone.

Turns out I was wrong.

It turns out I was maybe wrong to question Kawe's judgement on Vorte too. I was somewhat confused as when we had talked on TS I thought we were going to go with Vdti. The sudden switch to Vorte came as a supprise, as did not giving him a chance to respond to anything.

This is not the first time I've questioned Kawe's logic this game though. Don't get me wrong he did a great job catching Mouseh and Yoica. Especially compared to my judgement on Mouseh. I am going to list a few of the points I questioned though.

1) Revealing day one to me and Sint on TS that he was an assassin. If I was rebel I would have role blocked and killed him that night. Removing an "extra" kill from the imperials would have been too good to pass up. Delling was a very obvious target at that point.

2) Not killing Delling night one. I don't think we are ever going to get a better target in one of our games (sorry Dell) Getting a scum kill gives more information than anything else. We can cross reference it to votes. Of course it's not 100% (cf mouseh) but it is really very good.

2a) Having second thoughts about Dell after his last post. That was his _most_ damningly self incriminating one.

2b) Basing anything on the martyr claim (we could have 0 we could have 2).

3) Killing Nach night one. Now Nach did look sus I'll admit, but in my book it would be better to hold off until more information had been gleaned.

4) Not really using the information gained by revealing to me and Sint night one. If you are not going to use the reveal as a basis for anything why do it?

5) Thinking that I might be a rebel. Now I understand that sometimes mafia get thrown to the wind, however I made he very first post accusing Dell. I then hounded him till he was dead.

At the same time I mistakenly voted for Mouseh as captain. If the rebel plan was to gain Imperial trust by sacrificing Delling it's a big stretch to also think I would vote Rebel. Shiftey had raised suspicions about Mouseh, so its not like she was a 'safe' vote. I'm sure we can concoct situations where I was caught unawares or expected this to happen so that I could write this point. It is pretty unlikely if you think about it though. If I was a rebel trying to gain trust by sacrificing Delling it would be much safer to vote imperial.

The best way to find out the truth on this one of course is to ask me about it in the thread. Then see how consistent my answers are. Unfortunately this is where the next point comes.

6) There is a reason this thread has dried up. That is because all the logic has moved else where. There is no information coming anymore. I posted today about Kendo and Vorte. Nothing from Shiftey or Kawe...

7) Thinking that two people looking at the same data will always come to the same conclusion. That is what you are saying when you say "all you have to do is read the thread". Many eminent scientist spend their lives disagreeing about the same dataset. We need to see people trains of thought if we want to make a judgement.

8 ) Voting last minute for Vorte without a word of explanation. The Vdti quote at the top was the thing that swung me. If I had the Vorte reasoning written down I might not have made the same choice.

Of course I have made mistakes too. For example holding off on killing Delling was useful to gain extra info, even though it meant a rush on Saturday afternoon. I'm sure a few more will get listed soon

The 2 scum kills that Kawe got more than make up for the above list. I don't want to sound over critical. Mouseh and Yoica deaths were huge wins for us. Now that Kawe has posted his info most of the above problems can be worked out. I will read through the list tomorrow and we can get back to scum hunting.

[kawe]

6) There is a reason this thread has dried up. That is because all the logic has moved else where. There is no information coming anymore. I posted today about Kendo and Vorte. Nothing from Shiftey or Kawe...

7) Thinking that two people looking at the same data will always come to the same conclusion. That is what you are saying when you say "all you have to do is read the thread". Many eminent scientist spend their lives disagreeing about the same dataset. We need to see people trains of thought if we want to make a judgement.

Just gonna pick up on these. My gripe is that the very same 'all the logic' has been done by few people. There being no new information coming is, indeed a problem, and not one I've been able to solve nor can I, only the people who are playing but not posting or reading can do this. Which brings me onto the next point;

I'm saying 'all you have to do is read the thread' because that's the well from which you can draw conclusions... whatever they may be. I don't expect them to be the same, but I don't expect to have to keep being one of the few to be doing so, especially now that I'm pretty soon almost certainly dead. My problem is that largely, people aren't making judgments. They're just following the few people who are.

Part of vote changing without an attached reason was surprising indeed - that was the point. Generating reactions is hard enough as it is.

I did glance back through your posts, and it did at least somewhat reassure me you're more likely imperial than others; but when you get so worked up and bent out of shape on TS, and when I sit and think, heck, I don't even know why you were in the first place. Doing so certainly creates unnecesary doubt of you, especially when you said your vote didn't matter, when in the end it was the vote that decided it; had you voted Vorte, for example, even emptyy's doublevote on vdti would have not made it a Vdti lynch since they'd have then been equal but with Vorte reaching the highest count first.

[Tyler]

I was "bent out of shape" on TS cos we just killed another innocent and learned very little out of it. We are going to be 10-3 instead of 12-2 after tonight. That is 2 "lives" (mis-lynches) instead of 4.

I am annoyed about the whole "people aren't posting" thing being countered by posting bare votes. I think you are being silly to question me and I worry that your "well it's not my fault, everyone else is being bad" attitude might contribute to losing another game.

Your definition of deciding vote and mine differ. True I could have condemmed Vorte, but I couldn't save him alone. It was what they call a Hobson's choice, Vorte or nothing. So yes I could have "decided" the vote and gone with Vorte, but it was up to Emptyy to actually save him. Me moving my vote made the way I did made zero difference.

Well not zero difference. Me voting for vorte would have rendered Emptyy's vote redundant. I was interested as to how he would vote. I fear that now this is going to gain me nothing.

[Tyler]

The main thing we need to do now though use the thread to challenge the people we think are guilty. We are still in a good position at 10-3. This game is still on, but we need more information in this thread. I propose we all name our top three suspects before the end of today. Mine are

1) Vorte: Has posted very little of value. Apparently was trying to concoct a way for Kawe to have a different blue role and the scum role blocked Kawe on night two.

2) Emptyy: I can't see past him winning the captain election with both Delling and Mouseh voting for him. If they had switched Mouseh could have been captain. Maybe she didn't fancy it who knows. Kawe is pretty convinced of his innocence as both Yoica and Mouseh cast doubt on him. Emptyy being a rebel is scary as it makes 4-3 to the imperials a rebel win.

3) Kendoki: As I have said before. Shiftey is convinced as he is against everyone. I think that that is the easiest way to play consistent rebel. Just randomly accuse everyone.

[Sintrael]

I agree that people arent posting enough (with actual informative posts), myself included.

I keep promising to do one then being too lazy to actually do it... I will do one soon!

I don't think its sus per se, but it is interesting that as soon as you've been questioned you decide to make almighty text wall posts tyler, some were quite defensive. The logic in them is sound in my opinion tho.

I'm confused as to why you're going after kendo, u seem to be the only person mentioning him. (lack of posts doesnt help this) The basis i can gather from your earlier post on him is that he's been randomly accusing everyone, he was caught on kawe for a while at the start i think?

After some quick checking i agree this is pretty sus. Did he make any big posts with reasons and info and such?

[Gaeios(Graxlos)]

at the time og dellings death. he had already posted that he was going out of town and it might have suited him fine to die and at the same time insuring the mafia keeping the captains position.

[Goza]

remember to send your night actions to both Goza and I by 23:59 Thursday night.

Clearly confused by being blown up to pieces by rebel scum, Palmar-TO55-0P seems to be suffering from some minor malfunctions. The deadline is 23:59 Wednesday night. Yes, that's tonight. Failure to comply will result in being hit by my magic wand.

[shankski]

Excellent post Kawe. Thanks for putting the time and effort in.

I am also one of those people not posting enough, with not very much input. I haz been busy looking for a flat, writing CVs and looking for a job.

I realise I signed up for this so I shall try and post more and give more info.

Currently I'm going to stick to my guns with Emptyy, instead of defending himself he votes for me. Seems like I am an easy target and hes just trying to get the attention off of himself.

[Kendoki]

The main thing we need to do now though use the thread to challenge the people we think are guilty.

3) Kendoki: As I have said before. Shiftey is convinced as he is against everyone.
I think that that is the easiest way to play consistent rebel. Just randomly accuse everyone.

I will play ball with you Tyler; for the sake of some conversation on these forums.

I agree the beginning of day 1 was very bad as to the point of suspecting people.
I was suspicious of the following people : Kawe, Starbrow, Tyler, Eetion, Instrikt, Chippen, Hugman, TTaM, Mouseh and Shiftey. Thats 10 people.
As i already said in one of my posts; i went into the game with the noobie mistake of that everyone lies. I saw rebel in every word written. After you, pointed out i was wrong with Kawe being on top with the votes, i re-read my own notes. I quickly realized i fucked them up, my notes of votes/supports/comments, etc... were completely wrong. I threw all my notes and the list of suspects away and started over. So i re-read, re-checked every post, after double checking i had 5 people being on my first suspect list, namely Kawe, TTaM, Intrinsic, Tronz and Chippen. (see my posts)
I vote Tronz, not able to check forums before the next morning.

The next day. Intrinsic gets lynched, so my list goes down to 4. Tronz explains his absence, i believe they are good enough reasons, he drops of my list. Down to 3. TTaM get murdered, down to 2. Delling makes the list,Blackwhale makes the list and Shankski makes the list. (see my posts) Up to 5. So my second suspect list consist of :Kawe, Chippen, Delling, Blackwhale, Shankski. While i am making my post Delling get shot, being short on time due to having a bqq, i stick with Delling on my list and let Kawe slide off, since he was 5th. Delling gets shot. Kawe and Shiftey, after some nice detective work, make short work of Yoica and Mouseh.Kawe falls off my list, Shiftey i trust to be Imperial, down to 3 on my list. Blackwhale get lynched, down to 2.

So its Chippen and Shankski left.

I take my notes and see again and again that Chippen is on it. So my third list only contains Chippen. (see my posts) So thats 8 people in total.

Now for example look at you : Arches, Shiftey, TTaM, Chippen, Delling, Tronz, Emptyy, Nach, Grax, Kendoki, Vdti, Vorte. Thats 13. These people you either questioned, voted for or you find them very sus.

Lets do another example, Shiftey : Kawe, Chippen, TTaM, Kawe, Arches, Mouseh, Tyler, Yoica, Delling, Blackwhale, Shankski, Vorte, Vdti. Thats 13. These people he either questioned, voted for or he find them very sus.

I can go on and on with different people, but thats seems a bit too much. So i dont get where Shiftey gets his data from where i r against all people, sure if he takes my retarded day 1 list, but i explained that in this post and my earlier posts.

You also said my posts are not constructive, yet i r one of the few who has put his thoughts/reasoning behind the people i suspect. I agree, my posts aint so colorful with quote's in quote's wrapped within more quote's or with fancy colors, but the thinking behind it is there. Perhaps not worded like Kawe or Starbrow, but sorry i aint them. Where the majority, just plainly votes, giving no info or very little.

[tronz]

So i don't have any new reasons to vote for this guy but I did think he would be an awesome candidate since he has played quite good for his first game. I do not think that his two votes will make much difference and his kill will tell us something I do believe. Also hugman is normally right.

vote: emptyy

There is no vote during the night!

[Goza]

Another night has gone. As the crew gathers to discuss further actions against the rebels, they notice a vocal person is amiss.





Kawe the Imperial Assassin has been brutally murdered.


It is now day 4. It will end Friday night, 23:59.

##Day

[Tyler]

Nice post Kendo ty. The silence is defening from the rest of you that didn't post. I still think we should all post our top three targets. Lets have em.

[shankski]

Noes Kawe.... I kind of expected it to be honest, I was actually surprised he lasted that long.


My top 2:

Emptyy - for previously mentioned reasons

Vorte - Sooo quiet, played a much different game this time round

Still deciding on the 3rd one but its a mash up between Chipp and Arch.

[Shiftey]

Okay, so here are my 3 suspicions now, very briefly:

Vorte:
His posts are short and with absolutely no content relevant to the game. In some of his posts, he supports Delling and Mouseh for captain, votes for Mouseh later on. He also says he could support the tronzwagoning on day 1, I'll just add him to the pile of rebels that did the same thing and call that suspicious. And his posts about the game is won and resignation on everything is either dumb as fuck or rebel way to try to destroy the Empire

He has to die


Emptyy:
His mega post on day 1 was nice, but I realise it was actually what a very clever rebel would do, cause that post actually brings nothing valuable, just voting records and some quotes and then absolutely random and terrible conclusion that I always disagreed with. Supports Mouseh for captain. Then offers himself for captain, sudden vote switching trend towards him (including me), one of them was Mouseh, she was leading in the votes up until that point and suddenly switches to Emptyy? Delling does same? Then he publishes his 3L list which turns out to be full of imperials... Jumps on Intrinsicwagon, he knew about TTaM being the cop. Took him a very long time to finally get him to shoot Delling after hours and hours of urging from number of people. And we still have no clue if he's a rebel or imperial but has two votes and that is dangerous for us

He has to die


Shankski:
I don't have to say much, I made a fairly extensive post on the matter, Shankski looks more guilty than anyone else left alive right now and I already said so countless times.

He has to die


P.S.: Rebels are afraid of me much? You know what I am talking about.

[shankski]

Hmm you are wrong about me Shiftey, so are the others that think I'm guilty.

I've voted for people you suspect long before you have said anything about them in this case Emptyy. If he is guilty and you say "He has to die" how come I have voted for him for the past 2 days and will do again today. I have also suspected Vorte who is also on your "Has to die" list.

I'm defending myself due to the fact a miss lynch at this stage of the game would be really bad yo. I'm srsly you guys rethink your suspicions about me.